2109. Whilst they were in that state, to wit, in a delightful stupor, they were translated to heaven among the celestials; for in such a state, so long as it lasts, they are, as it were, laid asleep as to externals, corporals, and phantasies, which are then quiescent, and they imagine that they are in heaven, as also they had said, and they are still there. But when that state ceases, they then return to their first state, which happens by degrees and slowly, that they may not hurt the celestials, and may not themselves be injured. I heard a certain one saying that he perceived what he could not express; doubtless it was the state, restless, uneasy, and the like, of such as were returning to their phantasies and cupidities. ((((((Meanwhile one of them spoke with me, whilst still there, to the effect that now he for the first time felt how much joy there is in heaven, and that it is a great fallacy for them to entertain another idea about the celestials, to wit, that they had no sensation or perception, as they often before had supposed and said, when yet they feel their inmost perception of joy in a more indefinite manner, than pleasures in the life of the body, which, as he says, he now despises, and perceives how vile and filthy was that with which they were delighted. He says, what more can)))))) a spirit have than the ample perception of joys which first affects them in heaven; because these affect the interiors, and are, as it were, proper to them, because perceived by an interior sense.