4650. [A CONVERSATION] WITH THE JEWS CONCERNING THE INTERNAL MAN. There were Jews, who were not of the worst sort, and who also listened to reasons. At first, they were not willing to hear the internal man named. I perceived that this was because Christians so often speak concerning the internal man. They asked whether it is not enough to worship God with the external worship enjoined; but they were told that they must also be humble before God, interiorly as well as exteriorly. They did not understand this; but when it was said that they should also be humble in heart, they began to understand somewhat. Then I made use of a comparison, to wit, of a comedian on the stage, who carries himself most humbly in presence of some one who acts the king, and, yet, in his heart, utterly despises him. It was asked whether they wished to be like such comedians; they said, No, but that they ought to be entirely humble in the presence of God. In this way they better understood what the internal is, to wit, [that they have it] who thought [as well as acted] humbly, before God. It was said that externals are but gestures significant of the internal: if these were separated it would appear ridiculous. It was said, moreover, that we read, in the Word, that this people worship me with the mouth, but their heart is far from me. From this saying, they understood that the heart ought to be in unison [with the mouth], and then the state would be internal. They then declared that they now knew what the internal man is. They added that they had supposed that those who are internal men did almost nothing with the body, that they scarcely spoke, but only thought, and, so, that the thing was a phantasy. Nor did they understand what faith is. They supposed it was to think, and wondered that this should effect anything. It was said to them that faith embraces that which ought to be known, acknowledged and done: as, for instance, that Jehovah is the only God, and that He is to be acknowledged as the only God - this belongs to faith; also, that they should believe, from the Word, that Messiah is to come and save; likewise, that they ought to comport themselves humbly in the presence of Jehovah - this is of faith, namely, it ought to be known, acknowledged and done. I wished to say that this ought to be believed; but they were not willing to allow that word.